Curse

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Jan 22, 2009, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rasaek

Let's assume 12 casting skill.

Channeled Strike:
10e
77 lightning damage w/o item
106 lightning damage with item
Casting time 2
Recharge 4

Immolate:
10e
106 damage always, more than a third of it armor ignoring from burning
Casting time 1
Recharge 3

When is synergy not synergy? When it's dependency. You can't claim this as an "advantage" of item spells: this is not something that makes item spells preferrable. For a rit player, this sort of thing only makes them necessary.

How can you compare Channeled Strike to Immolate? You're comparing a pure damage attribute line on a powerful damage orientated profession (Ele) with a Half healing, half damage (with channeling severely nerfed) profession. That's like me comparing the damage from a smiting skill on a monk to say the damage on some other high damage skill from the ele. It's not relevant at all. They fulfill different roles within the game.

As for the dependency on an item spell to get effect off non-item spell skills, it only appears as a dependency because it is so widely used and it so widely used because as I said earlier, it is the BEST option on a Ritualist. It is the optimal way to play the profession 9/10 times. This is not dependency, it is domination.

Rasaek · Jan 23, 2009, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie the reaper

How can you compare Channeled Strike to Immolate? You're comparing a pure damage attribute line on a powerful damage orientated profession (Ele) with a Half healing, half damage (with channeling severely nerfed) profession. That's like me comparing the damage from a smiting skill on a monk to say the damage on some other high damage skill from the ele. It's not relevant at all. They fulfill different roles within the game.

We can quote specific examples at each other until we're blue in the face, you know. Without an item spell, there's no reason to take that spell for nuking, you're exactly right. You might as well pick smiting to nuke for that matter - or do some real damage and go /E. But even with an item spell, it doesn't compare favorably. For that matter, I know how Kaolai's works, and of course it has it's benefits, but that still doesn't show that they outweigh a good wand/focus set.

On an unrelated note, I'm still not convinced that just because rits have a wider selection of spells, their spells should suck.

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Jan 24, 2009, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rasaek

We can quote specific examples at each other until we're blue in the face, you know. Without an item spell, there's no reason to take that spell for nuking, you're exactly right. You might as well pick smiting to nuke for that matter - or do some real damage and go /E. But even with an item spell, it doesn't compare favorably. For that matter, I know how Kaolai's works, and of course it has it's benefits, but that still doesn't show that they outweigh a good wand/focus set.

On an unrelated note, I'm still not convinced that just because rits have a wider selection of spells, their spells should suck.

It doesn't matter that without an item spell the skill isn't good, that's irrelevant because no one will take it without an item spell. What I was saying is that item spells do not promote inflexible bars because both skills can function without each other, however this rarely happens. Compared to say having 1 spirit and taking Signet of Creation. Yes there is a synergy there but it's inflexible because signet of creation can only work with the spirit.

That's why the item-spell and item bonuses are so good, they promote perfect synergy without becoming full dependent on each other. Yes, I think it does outweigh the benefits of a 40/40 set because as we proved earlier, you do NOT get x amount of extra spells from it, that only occurs with constant casting. 40/40 sets are used for spell availability, so that should the occasion arise you have the chance to use a spell that you need before it would normally be charged, not so that you can spam spam spam, and the Item Spell - Item Bonus syngery on the rit bar is superior to this.

As for why Rit skills have been nerfed a lot because of their diversity, this is because a Class that can heal very efficiently as well as output high damage through channeling becomes very over-powered. I'm sure you've seen the effects of this in smiting monks as well as soon as a few smiting skills get buffed and see use they become very imbalanced.

MagmaRed · Jan 24, 2009, 07:56 PM // 19:56

When I first started playing on my Rit, I NEVER used Item spells. I thought it was horrible how you lost your weapon set, and couldn't get the energy from it or even wand things. After I learned through experience how to manage energy, I decided to give them another try. I used [destructive was glaive] and [renewing surge] first. Of course spamming Renewing gave me energy problems, but I found something fun to do. Then I moved to a healing build and used [protective was kaolai]. I rarely have energy problems when using that Resto build, and don't have any skills to manage my energy.

Your comparison of Channeled Strike to Immolate makes it sound like you want to play your Rit as an Ele. Rit has a lot of options, and they all work quite well if played right. A 40/40 weapon set can make a big difference in a build, but if your build RELIES on it, then there is another problem. And I do not think the idea of having more spells on your bar when using a 40/40 set is even close to accurate.

RiceCream · Jan 26, 2009, 12:09 AM // 00:09

So I was playing pvp the other night. So first thing I do, of course, is cast my item spell, being dependent on it to maintain energy.
I had cast this item spell in my low energy set. We decided to punish this really bad PR warrior who was really bad so we decided to punish him by killing him. I decided I was going to drop the item I was holding, it was getting kinda heavy and i had flags to run, but being a lazy person I just switched weapon sets (to my 40/40 channeling set, cause i like to use my weapon sets intelligently on key skills) so i could help kill this bad warrior in PR who was being bad.
anyways. when i've dropped an item by switching weapon sets i often get bugged energy where, while my blue bar may show 10 or so energy, i cannot cast a 5 energy skill. this is the only issue i'm finding with item spells.

@ op you cannot compare eles with rits. eles are a damage and CC (crowd control) class, while rits are versatility. eles excel at damage and physical shutdown, and rits are just ok at everything, with two unique spell types to make them useful

Darth The Xx · Jan 29, 2009, 08:17 PM // 20:17

If you think item spells are bad or screw variety or anything like that I am sorry but you are a bad ritualist. I love playing rit and item spells are about one of the classes best traits. You complain about them not being as good as a 40/40 set but u dont take into account the bonus u get from the item or the synergies u get from holding it. U also dont take into account that u dont have to hold the item spell 100% of the time. You can have a 40/40 set on your rit, drop the item when needed, cast a spell u want while not holding the item (WoW any1?) and then recast the item spell. Simple things like this give u a chance to half cast WoW and half the recharge.

All i can say really is the system isnt flawed, you just need to l2p

P.S the guy who said something about energy bugging out where it looks like u got more than u acually have, I have this same problem occasionally too.

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Jan 29, 2009, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth The Xx

If you think item spells are bad or screw variety or anything like that I am sorry but you are a bad ritualist. I love playing rit and item spells are about one of the classes best traits. You complain about them not being as good as a 40/40 set but u dont take into account the bonus u get from the item or the synergies u get from holding it. U also dont take into account that u dont have to hold the item spell 100% of the time. You can have a 40/40 set on your rit, drop the item when needed, cast a spell u want while not holding the item (WoW any1?) and then recast the item spell. Simple things like this give u a chance to half cast WoW and half the recharge.

All i can say really is the system isnt flawed, you just need to l2p

P.S the guy who said something about energy bugging out where it looks like u got more than u acually have, I have this same problem occasionally too.

Actually if you had of read the rest of the thread, we already discussed all these things.

Also if you think you shouldn't be holding the item spell all the time then it is YOU who is the bad ritualist.

MagmaRed · Jan 29, 2009, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie the reaper

Actually if you had of read the rest of the thread, we already discussed all these things.

Also if you think you shouldn't be holding the item spell all the time then it is YOU who is the bad ritualist.

That would depend on what the item spell you are using is. A skill like Protective Was Kaolai should be held at all times for the extra armor, but you would want to drop it for healing if needed. However, a spell like Pure Was Li Ming isn't able to be help at all times, and should be dropped as needed to remove conditions from the team. But I will agree, that in general, you have the items spells held at all times unless you NEED to drop them for thier benefit.

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Jan 29, 2009, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

That would depend on what the item spell you are using is. A skill like Protective Was Kaolai should be held at all times for the extra armor, but you would want to drop it for healing if needed. However, a spell like Pure Was Li Ming isn't able to be help at all times, and should be dropped as needed to remove conditions from the team. But I will agree, that in general, you have the items spells held at all times unless you NEED to drop them for thier benefit.

You're not just holding the items spells for their additional effect though, all good rit bars synergize the item spells with spells that have additional bonuses with the item spells and so the item spell should always be up in order to fully utilise the additonal effects.

Darth The Xx · Jan 30, 2009, 05:20 AM // 05:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie the reaper

Actually if you had of read the rest of the thread, we already discussed all these things.

Also if you think you shouldn't be holding the item spell all the time then it is YOU who is the bad ritualist.

You obviously didn't read it properly. Drop item, cast spell, recast item as opposed to using that spell after u recast your item spell.

P.S I didn't read many of the posts here.

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Jan 30, 2009, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth The Xx

You obviously didn't read it properly. Drop item, cast spell, recast item as opposed to using that spell after u recast your item spell.

P.S I didn't read many of the posts here.

That is an equally if not worse thing to do.

You realise how much energy that burns up? If you think a 40% chance to get Half Cast/Half recharge is worth dropping a 10/15e Item spell only to recast it again immediately after then...wow...Sorry but doing that would burn up nearly all your energy nearly instantly...

rohara · Jan 30, 2009, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie the reaper

That is an equally if not worse thing to do.

You realise how much energy that burns up? If you think a 40% chance to get Half Cast/Half recharge is worth dropping a 10/15e Item spell only to recast it again immediately after then...wow...Sorry but doing that would burn up nearly all your energy nearly instantly...

getting a HSR on a PwK as a stand rit or flag runner can make all the difference when your team is under heavy pressure. sacrificing a good chunk of your energy is worth it sometimes.

overall, i have mixed feelings about item spells. synergy is good in theory, but dependency is a part of synergy. the ritualist is a class that has very few practical options for energy management, and is further crippled in that respect due to having to sacrifice weapon bonuses in order to use the item spell that enables you to use the energy management skills. when any other class runs low on energy, they can swap to a high energy weapon set. the ritualist cannot, and if they are forced to...they are also forced to sacrifice using their item spell, which in turn makes their energy management skills useless. item spells also suck in the respect that they guarantee easy interrupts for your enemies and you can only use one at a time. the only plus side to item spells (aside from the particular holding effect) is that you can't do a damn thing about the drop effect. therefore, an item spell needs to be really awesome (like PwK, which has a good holding effect AND a good drop effect) to be worth using. the vast majority of item spells are not worth the sacrifice.

also, while on the subject...

dear anet,
please fix the energy desync bug that happens when you die while holding an item. i have thoroughly documented it on your wiki.
sincerely,
disgruntled flag runner

Darth The Xx · Jan 30, 2009, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by rohara

dear anet,
please fix the energy desync bug that happens when you die while holding an item. i have thoroughly documented it on your wiki.
sincerely,
disgruntled flag runner

O.o can you post the link, I want to read up on that.

To the guy who still doesn't get what I'm saying, you should never drop an item spell on purpose with the intention of casting another spell in between, there are times when your team is under pressure and you need to drop the ashes to help relieve the pressure (Talking about PwK here), it is these times when you can take advantage of your weapon set. That being said it doesn't mean that you have do this ALL the time due to energy reasons as you so nicely pointed out.

P.S I would very much like to know what 15e item spell you are using.

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Jan 31, 2009, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth The Xx

O.o can you post the link, I want to read up on that.

To the guy who still doesn't get what I'm saying, you should never drop an item spell on purpose with the intention of casting another spell in between, there are times when your team is under pressure and you need to drop the ashes to help relieve the pressure (Talking about PwK here), it is these times when you can take advantage of your weapon set. That being said it doesn't mean that you have do this ALL the time due to energy reasons as you so nicely pointed out.

P.S I would very much like to know what 15e item spell you are using.

Yes, of course you would do that, however in your original post you did not make it clear at all that was what you were implying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rohara

getting a HSR on a PwK as a stand rit or flag runner can make all the difference when your team is under heavy pressure. sacrificing a good chunk of your energy is worth it sometimes.

Yes, I understand that but that is recasting the Item Spell, I was under the impression that he was talking about dropping the Item Spell just to cast something like Warding in a 40/40 set and then recasting the Item, however he has since made it clearer what his original meaning was.

rohara · Jan 31, 2009, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth The Xx

O.o can you post the link, I want to read up on that.

i posted it on linsey's talk page, but it appears as though she archived it somewhere and now i can't find it >.<

basically, if you die while on your 40/40 set holding an item, you have to wait for that extra +12 energy (from the focus) to regen (even though you can't see it) before your energy pool will act normal again. that goes for any energy bonuses on the weapons.

if you find your energy has desynced (ie. can't cast a 5e spell when your bar says you have 10e available), just stop casting if at all possible. i know it is terribly inconvenient, especially if you were not resurrected with full energy. wait for your energy bar to go all the way up, and then wait an additional 10 seconds or so (more if you died on a high set) and you will be back to normal.

Darth The Xx · Jan 31, 2009, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by rohara

i posted it on linsey's talk page, but it appears as though she archived it somewhere and now i can't find it >.<

basically, if you die while on your 40/40 set holding an item, you have to wait for that extra +12 energy (from the focus) to regen (even though you can't see it) before your energy pool will act normal again. that goes for any energy bonuses on the weapons.

if you find your energy has desynced (ie. can't cast a 5e spell when your bar says you have 10e available), just stop casting if at all possible. i know it is terribly inconvenient, especially if you were not resurrected with full energy. wait for your energy bar to go all the way up, and then wait an additional 10 seconds or so (more if you died on a high set) and you will be back to normal.

So if i use a +0 energy set while holding an item the desync wont happen?

rohara · Feb 01, 2009, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth The Xx

So if i use a +0 energy set while holding an item the desync wont happen?

correct. stay on a shield set if at all possible.

Keira Nightgale · Feb 01, 2009, 08:23 PM // 20:23

I didn't read all the posts and honestly I'm studying so I cannot be bothered but I'd like to point a thing at the people defending item spells

There are currently 15 item spells in this game

They are Xinrae, Sogolon, Khainei,Kaolai, Naomei, Lingwah, Mingson, Xiko,Kunoroong, Lee Sa, Songkai, Tanasen, Li ming, Tsungrai, Vorizun, Daoshen, Glavie.

Of these 16, 6 are elites.

Xinrae is a bad elite, the bastard daughter of Unholy feast and prot spirit. But it's elite, and on top of that the primary effect (20% protection) is terrible for anything above 200hp, in this it's outperformed by prot spirit, the life steal is laughable
Sogolon simply sucks,
Khainei is decent, but remains the fact that this is a pve elite
Kaolai: godly, party heal + armor buff, you could argue you lose the weapon set bonus, but if you cast kaolai without dropping the previous urn first you're bad. In that case you'd be gimping yourself by not using a 40/40 set, of course there are exceptions.
Naomei : lol
Lingwah: it's a spirit, I'm biased toward this.
Mingson: Strong defense skill, can be used to help allies as well.
Xiko: I rarely use this, but honestly the + degen it grants doesn't excuse the investment, I'd use kaolai.
Lee Sa : Bad energy management, linked to Spawning power as well, simply sucks.
Songkai: Average elite, at least compared to some of the other shit anet gave ritualists, but it's linked to spawning, and on top of that it's designed for skill spamming. Why should I spam my skills?
Tanasen: Bad skill and elite on top of that, basically they took kaolai gimped it and made it elite. Someone could say "It prevents interrupt", as a rit the only interrupt I fear are Warrior's and rangers and knock downs, most of the time I'm under weapon of warding, with this skill I'd not only drop the set bonuses but on top of that it would give me nothing useful compared to kaolai
Li ming: Aoe condition removal every 20 seconds, a necro with foul feast can do much better in a smaller timeframe.
Tsungrai: Sac life, increases your health (but you lose the set bonuses) and when dropped you get healed. Only time I would use this is when I'm knocked down, but you can't drop ashes while on the ground so I dislike this.
Vorizun: Bad skill, having more energy shouldn't be your energy management, also it's linked to communing. It gives +15 armor, but it makes you lose your potential shield, on top of that If i want to use a pot I'd use Kaolai wich has a better after effect/gives more armor and is linked to a more useful attribute
Daoshen : PBaoe nuke, a ritu shouldn't be a frontliner, I don't see much use for this, and the 15energy cost doesn't help.
Glavie: They buffed it, but honestly I don't see it so useful, in hm pve mobs will still laugh at your damage, in pvp you will most of the time be running a secondary class elite or Caretaker.
Kunoroong: Decent elite, but it's a pbaoe nuke, the damage here is armor ignoring, vs a 80AL char you will be getting almost the same number Daoshen has, energy cost is 15, the elite status is given due to the unconditional KD, wich can be applied twice if timed correctly.

Generally item spells are flawed, they are unstrippable but on the other hand they prevent you from gaining weapon sets advantages, this would be pretty fair if such spells were at least decent but some of them are utter shit, mainly due to a bad design/and repeated nerfs to skill lines. Unlike enchantments wich stack item spells don't, but they are not removable
This should sum up why Item spells are bad (again I directed this post to one of the guy defending item spells)

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Feb 01, 2009, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keira Nightgale

I didn't read all the posts and honestly I'm studying so I cannot be bothered but I'd like to point a thing at the people defending item spells

There are currently 15 item spells in this game

They are Xinrae, Sogolon, Khainei,Kaolai, Naomei, Lingwah, Mingson, Xiko,Kunoroong, Lee Sa, Songkai, Tanasen, Li ming, Tsungrai, Vorizun, Daoshen, Glavie.

Of these 16, 6 are elites.

Xinrae is a bad elite, the bastard daughter of Unholy feast and prot spirit. But it's elite, and on top of that the primary effect (20% protection) is terrible for anything above 200hp, in this it's outperformed by prot spirit, the life steal is laughable
Sogolon simply sucks,
Khainei is decent, but remains the fact that this is a pve elite
Kaolai: godly, party heal + armor buff, you could argue you lose the weapon set bonus, but if you cast kaolai without dropping the previous urn first you're bad. In that case you'd be gimping yourself by not using a 40/40 set, of course there are exceptions.
Naomei : lol
Lingwah: it's a spirit, I'm biased toward this.
Mingson: Strong defense skill, can be used to help allies as well.
Xiko: I rarely use this, but honestly the + degen it grants doesn't excuse the investment, I'd use kaolai.
Lee Sa : Bad energy management, linked to Spawning power as well, simply sucks.
Songkai: Average elite, at least compared to some of the other shit anet gave ritualists, but it's linked to spawning, and on top of that it's designed for skill spamming. Why should I spam my skills?
Tanasen: Bad skill and elite on top of that, basically they took kaolai gimped it and made it elite. Someone could say "It prevents interrupt", as a rit the only interrupt I fear are Warrior's and rangers and knock downs, most of the time I'm under weapon of warding, with this skill I'd not only drop the set bonuses but on top of that it would give me nothing useful compared to kaolai
Li ming: Aoe condition removal every 20 seconds, a necro with foul feast can do much better in a smaller timeframe.
Tsungrai: Sac life, increases your health (but you lose the set bonuses) and when dropped you get healed. Only time I would use this is when I'm knocked down, but you can't drop ashes while on the ground so I dislike this.
Vorizun: Bad skill, having more energy shouldn't be your energy management, also it's linked to communing. It gives +15 armor, but it makes you lose your potential shield, on top of that If i want to use a pot I'd use Kaolai wich has a better after effect/gives more armor and is linked to a more useful attribute
Daoshen : PBaoe nuke, a ritu shouldn't be a frontliner, I don't see much use for this, and the 15energy cost doesn't help.
Glavie: They buffed it, but honestly I don't see it so useful, in hm pve mobs will still laugh at your damage, in pvp you will most of the time be running a secondary class elite or Caretaker.
Kunoroong: Decent elite, but it's a pbaoe nuke, the damage here is armor ignoring, vs a 80AL char you will be getting almost the same number Daoshen has, energy cost is 15, the elite status is given due to the unconditional KD, wich can be applied twice if timed correctly.

Generally item spells are flawed, they are unstrippable but on the other hand they prevent you from gaining weapon sets advantages, this would be pretty fair if such spells were at least decent but some of them are utter shit, mainly due to a bad design/and repeated nerfs to skill lines. Unlike enchantments wich stack item spells don't, but they are not removable
This should sum up why Item spells are bad (again I directed this post to one of the guy defending item spells)

No one at any time defended any of the bad item spells, of course having a 40/40 set is going to be better than using one of the shit item spells, you haven't pointed out anything new, you're just stating the obvious.

No one is forcing you to run one of the bad item spells either so saying "this would be pretty fair if such spells were at least decent but some of them are utter shit" isn't valid at all.

There are some good item spells, primarily Protective Was Kaolai which is outstanding. You can only really compare the good item spells such as kaolai to a 40/40 set. There really is no point whatsoever in comparing the bad item spells that no one uses because, well, no one uses them.

Stackable Item Spells would simply be one of the most imbalanced things ever.

Darth The Xx · Feb 02, 2009, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keira Nightgale

I didn't read all the posts and honestly I'm studying so I cannot be bothered but I'd like to point a thing at the people defending item spells

There are currently 15 item spells in this game

They are Xinrae, Sogolon, Khainei,Kaolai, Naomei, Lingwah, Mingson, Xiko,Kunoroong, Lee Sa, Songkai, Tanasen, Li ming, Tsungrai, Vorizun, Daoshen, Glavie.

Of these 16, 6 are elites.

Xinrae is a bad elite, the bastard daughter of Unholy feast and prot spirit. But it's elite, and on top of that the primary effect (20% protection) is terrible for anything above 200hp, in this it's outperformed by prot spirit, the life steal is laughable
Sogolon simply sucks,
Khainei is decent, but remains the fact that this is a pve elite
Kaolai: godly, party heal + armor buff, you could argue you lose the weapon set bonus, but if you cast kaolai without dropping the previous urn first you're bad. In that case you'd be gimping yourself by not using a 40/40 set, of course there are exceptions.
Naomei : lol
Lingwah: it's a spirit, I'm biased toward this.
Mingson: Strong defense skill, can be used to help allies as well.
Xiko: I rarely use this, but honestly the + degen it grants doesn't excuse the investment, I'd use kaolai.
Lee Sa : Bad energy management, linked to Spawning power as well, simply sucks.
Songkai: Average elite, at least compared to some of the other shit anet gave ritualists, but it's linked to spawning, and on top of that it's designed for skill spamming. Why should I spam my skills?
Tanasen: Bad skill and elite on top of that, basically they took kaolai gimped it and made it elite. Someone could say "It prevents interrupt", as a rit the only interrupt I fear are Warrior's and rangers and knock downs, most of the time I'm under weapon of warding, with this skill I'd not only drop the set bonuses but on top of that it would give me nothing useful compared to kaolai
Li ming: Aoe condition removal every 20 seconds, a necro with foul feast can do much better in a smaller timeframe.
Tsungrai: Sac life, increases your health (but you lose the set bonuses) and when dropped you get healed. Only time I would use this is when I'm knocked down, but you can't drop ashes while on the ground so I dislike this.
Vorizun: Bad skill, having more energy shouldn't be your energy management, also it's linked to communing. It gives +15 armor, but it makes you lose your potential shield, on top of that If i want to use a pot I'd use Kaolai wich has a better after effect/gives more armor and is linked to a more useful attribute
Daoshen : PBaoe nuke, a ritu shouldn't be a frontliner, I don't see much use for this, and the 15energy cost doesn't help.
Glavie: They buffed it, but honestly I don't see it so useful, in hm pve mobs will still laugh at your damage, in pvp you will most of the time be running a secondary class elite or Caretaker.
Kunoroong: Decent elite, but it's a pbaoe nuke, the damage here is armor ignoring, vs a 80AL char you will be getting almost the same number Daoshen has, energy cost is 15, the elite status is given due to the unconditional KD, wich can be applied twice if timed correctly.

Generally item spells are flawed, they are unstrippable but on the other hand they prevent you from gaining weapon sets advantages, this would be pretty fair if such spells were at least decent but some of them are utter shit, mainly due to a bad design/and repeated nerfs to skill lines. Unlike enchantments wich stack item spells don't, but they are not removable
This should sum up why Item spells are bad (again I directed this post to one of the guy defending item spells)

Because your opinion of these spells is all that matters ... Sure there are some totally crap ones however item spells are for different purposes.

For example Songkai is an obvious PvE skill as is Li Ming, replacing a skill with another class is hardly a fair comparison not to mention for your average guy Necros may not be around, this skill also removes the conditions instantly preventing damage from skills like Searing Flames and also keeping disease under control.

I also disagree with your opinion of Tsungrai this is a great skill in any solo oriented area, namely RA and AB it provides a massive self heal with a decent health bonus.

Just because an item spell is not useful to YOU doesn't mean it isn't useful.